This title is a bit misleading, because I don’t feel authors should be using our streams to SELL SELL SELL. I am an author. I tweet a lot, mostly about topics that are of interest to me (Nutella, relationships, love, loss, sexual abuse, music, books, social media). I tweet my own books (well, mostly just Broken Pieces, my latest release, once in awhile my first two humor books) MAYBE a few times per week. Mostly, I refer folks to my bio where there’s a direct purchase link.
Lots of authors tweet nothing but links to their books. This is a mistake — it’s off-putting and annoying. Below, examples:
‘Here’s my latest book: It’s All About Me. Please buy, review, tell everyone you know!’ NO. #unfollow
I tweet a lot of music — what I enjoy, lines from songs (always with attribution). I got this yesterday: ‘If you love David Poe, you’ll LOVE my new single. Click here to view and share with your network!’ NO. #unfollow
Let’s deconstruct.
SELF-PROMOTION
When you first started on Twitter (for the sake of this discussion, I’ll use Twitter, but the principles apply to any social media network), you were probably a puppy: ‘woot! all these millions of people will now know about my amazing book! Tweet links, tweet links, tweet links!’ The mistake is: nobody cares. Nobody knows who we are.
We are raised to think we’re special, wonderful, unique beings. Unfortunately (or actually, fortunately in this case), social media isn’t ‘All About Me’ media, it’s ‘Social’ media. I’m not sure why some authors get this and some don’t. To be fair, authors aren’t the only ones constantly hawking their own work — I see musicians, artists, and many charities and businesses also doing the ME ME ME thing. To me, this just reeks of newbie-ness, of inexperience, and even desperation. And really, is that how you want to be perceived?
So, what to do? Gawk: watch what others do, figure out the lingo (Twitter’s HELP section is quite complete and there are millions of articles about how to use it on the net), learn. Focus on being your authentic, true self, not being an automaton spewing out book links.
THE BIG SECRET
I’ve been on Twitter since 2009, and I’ve learned a lot about human behavior just observing interactions there. What I’ve found: the authors who make a real effort to connect with readers, bloggers, and reviewers (more below) sell far more books by NOT selling, but by talking with people and sharing great content.
What a concept: talking, connecting, interacting!
To be clear, I’m not opposed to all self-promotion. We all have rent to pay. I share links occasionally to my books. I’m opposed to constant, unrelenting, hard-selling self-promotion, particularly when accompanied by defensiveness and attitude. At this point, I will simply unfollow you.
UNFOLLOW
Many authors start on Twitter (or FB, etc.) and follow other authors. That’s fine and all (we are, for the most part, supportive), but the authors who go into Twitter expecting something from their fellow authors will be sorely disappointed — most of us are so swamped with our own work, it’s all we can do to interact (‘make a friend, make a sale’), let alone read your books, review them, and promote them for you. That’s not OUR job, to be blunt.
Your job is to find ways to promote your work that are not obnoxious. I recommend relationship-building, advertising, promotional book groups (where you support authors and they support you on specific events — Facebook, G+, and LinkedIn have the most groups, I’ve found), blogging (participate in #MondayBlogs — share ANY post, retweet others. On Mondays.), guest blogging, interviews. None of this falls in your lap like a bucket of love from the sky — you have to find your opportunities.
This disconnect — this wanting others to do our work for us — this is where authors hit trouble. That and expecting others (anyone! everyone!) to turn our stream, which we’ve worked for years to cultivate, into their own personal commercial. It reminds me of drafting in cycling.
I’ve heard it all — rationalizations about how you don’t have enough time (pft. Use Hootsuite to schedule across your platform, interact live when you have time), that you have no money (pft, doesn’t cost anything to ask someone how they’re doing), or retweet (RT), follow, or list someone.
THE THING
Here’s the thing: Twitter (or any channel) will not sell books for you. What it does do is increase your visibility, and if done correctly, creates a reader base for when you need beta readers, or want to create a street team, when your book does come out, when you have a promotion, or some major accomplishment that you want to share. I’ve found readers, bloggers, and reviewers (whom I go out of my way to follow) are open to helping me because I’m not constantly barraging them with random requests — particularly when we interact the very first time.
Remember, this isn’t a sprint. You have time to build your base and connect with influencers. And by connect, I do not mean annoy the hell out of them.
WHAT TO DO
Share snippets of your work (a quote here and there), pictures, videos, blog posts (yours and others), news. Chat, be yourself. Don’t talk about your book constantly (or your lunch — that’s so over). You have an avatar, bio, header and a background on Twitter — four places where you can take full advantage, using links there. IF you have a promotion, politely ask your followers and author friends to share a tweet. Even tweet it yourself once or twice, max.
Bothering people to buy your books doesn’t work. If you think it does, fine. I will not be following you or helping you promote your work. I’m all about helping other authors — if you ask me nicely and send me Nutella (kidding!), I may RT you. If you ask me to read and review your book, I won’t. Not because I’m being a bitch, but because you need to be connecting with bloggers and reviewers who are FAR more influential than I. Plus, I have to be conscious of how many book tweets go out on my stream, how much promotion I’m willing to share. As should you.
How do you use social media as part of your author platform? I’d love your thoughts and suggestions!
P.S. Broken Pieces is on sale for two days only — $3.99 (reg. price $5.99) for the eBook — no Kindle required (free reading apps). Want to join my street team The BadRedheads? ? Here’s the form. Want to sign up for my newsletter? Click over there >>>>>>.
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This is a grea blog post. Friends and I were talking about this very thing the other day. Twitter has all but lost its social appeal because so very few people are social there anymore. It’s all buy my book/mp3/whatever. So much noise most of the time, it’s like shoutng into the void when you do try to make conversation.
thanks for reading and responding, Jennifer. I appreciate your kind words. I think people have a love/hate relationship with Twitter at this point — if you want breaking news or trends, nothing beats it. I always say we get out of Twitter what we put in and that’s true of any social media site. Many authors only follow other authors, and that’s a big mistake — they need to instead focus on readers, book bloggers and book reviewers.
Focusing on readers will make our experience much more enriching. At least, that’s been my experience!
Dumb question (I know)but how do you determine WHO is a “reader” on Twitter?
Good question, Gershom! I use ManageFlitter.com to enter keywords like reader, book blogger, book reviewer, or whatever genre or topic I’m looking for. It’s not a perfect system, but it works quite well. I do the same for my BadRedheadMedia.com clients as well.
Another way: follow authors in a similar genre, and see who they follow, what lists they have created or they’re on. Much of the work is already done for you. You can also create a Rafflecopter contest which captures readers’ Twitter handles and emails (you need to set up a newsletter first). Mailchimp is free.
Finally: visit reader-centric blogs and connect with readers there. Follow the trail back to Twitter, FB, G+, Pinterest, etc., and connect with them there as well. It takes time, but it’s totally worth it.
That ‘nobody cares’ bit is so true – everyone, when they first start on Twitter, tweet their book with ‘Just published on Amazon – my new book blah blah’ – forgetting that it isn’t Facebook, and all those people don’t already know you and won’t give much of a.
I know your posts often reiterate the ‘don’t shove it in people’s faces’ outlook, but this is the best one, I think!
Thanks Terry! I do feel like a broken record sometimes, and I used to reach out to authors directly when they would spam me. Now I’m so tired of the rationalizations and excuses, I simply unfollow. Can’t help those who won’t help themselves, right? 🙂
hugs, you. You’re doing it right.
Thank you!!!! I know what you mean – now I write more blog posts I feel like a broken record much of the time, too – and I used to engage with the spammers as well – now I just BLOCK!
Ha! “…ways to promote your work that are not obnoxious” – the single best summary I’ve ever seen of social media etiquette 😀
LOL, thank you, Jon. 🙂 One thing I am not (at least on my own blog posts) is subtle. thanks for reading and commenting. xx
Thank you so much. My son has insisted that being a new writer I need to establish a social media presence and I do agree, however I’m just retired and my familiarity with how and what I should actually tweet has left me confused. I see so much self-promotion and start to wonder if that is what I’m supposed to be doing. Doesn’t feel comfortable. Good to know I just need to be myself and it’s OK to share the tunes and the occasional quote and just enjoy. Thanks again..
Social media is definitely PART of your presence (aka, your author platform). I write about that over on BookPromotion.com what a platform is, how social media and other things fit into it. That could prove helpful, I hope.
good luck, and yes, trust your instincts — be yourself.
Thank you for your time and the reference – I’m sure it will be very helpful to a newbie like myself.
I believe that overkill of anything is just that, overkill. But what is the difference from a follower who remembers your profile as an author, your last plug of your book, and a tweet with a link to content that states in the first one-third of the posting about your book, then criticize others for mentioning their book. Retailers are here selling everything they own; 24 hours a day.
Authors are no different; we have to market and sell because all of social media is a platform for just that; knowledge and information. Some sell their information while others give it away. There are persons interested in some, not all. Yours not mine. Neither of ours, but others.
Social media is a learning, interacting, and information propellent source, it is not a buyer beware, but a information source. Books so happen to be an element placed in this information source. Your timing to see someone’s posting to a sales ad, may not be your time to see it. But overkill of anything weeps its consequences.
I don’t mean to criticize — just hoping people will analyze the effectiveness of their strategy — and sadly, that many don’t have one. Occasional self promo is fine (I plugged my book a few times the past two days since it’s on sale), but certainly not in every tweet or FB share. Once the promo is over, I’ll go back to sharing quotes and referring people to my bio to click on the link to purchase.
I agree — social media is about learning, interacting, and info. I love finding and sharing great content, and avidly follow and appreciate those who do the same. It’s great to connect!
What you say here, Rachel, is the number one advice EVERYWHERE regarding new authors and tweeting etiquette (of course, you have your own very persuasive and unique way of driving the point home). I really don’t understand writers who completely ignore this advice and do their own thing. Where I’m concerned, and as I have no book links since I won’t publish until the end of the year, I use the “giver not taker” angle as much as my time permits it. And I found it yields. I won’t bore your readers with my stats, but I will share my experience with you: we’ve been following each other on Twitter for about three months, and I’ve sent you some Nutella recipes (you’re always kind enough to thank me) but then I bake a cake on Valentine’s Day and it comes out with broken pieces (“chocolate”, “broken pieces” hello?) so I tweeted a photo of it to you using the #BrokenPieces hashtag. I never expected anything in return other than an RT maybe, but you did follow me back on Google+ and “friended” me on Goodreads the very same day. That goes to show that it’s very easy to get noticed through costless little things everyone can come up with as long as you prove it’s a selfless act. And if you don’t expect anything in return but still manage to get some love, the joy is even bigger!
Greetings from Greece!
Thanks so much, MM. And I did appreciate that broken piece of cake lol!
It’s honestly about networking — but in an authentic way, not in a ‘hi here’s my link buy my book it’s all about me me me’ kind of way. I’m not sure why some authors get that and some don’t. Some are furious when I won’t share their links — scolding me for not supporting authors. They don’t want to be told that their strategy (or lack thereof) is ineffective and frequently rude. I personally think it comes down to accepting responsibility: I don’t expect anyone to promote my work and when they do (without me even asking), I’m always so humbled and grateful.
Sadly, too many people feel that monetary benefits (book sales) are the only measure of success. At least, that seems to explain it best for me. I’m glad to know you’re putting in the work to connect and are quite generous about it too!
You’re so right. I personally don’t want to retweet/favorite/follow a stream that has nothing but promotions in it. Why should I inflict my promos on someone else? I’m a complete newbie on Twitter (2 months and counting), and I hardly have any followers, so what would I achieve by pushing my book right now?
I also think that even if I was to sell, sell, sell, in order to stand out I’d have to have some pretty compelling copy, which is tough in 140 characters (counting hashtags and links). Otherwise my ‘buy my book’ plug just gets washed downstream.
Thank you, Natasha. I’m happy to share what works for me and for my clients — if someone doesn’t agree, it’s their right to do as they please. I overwhelmingly hear that for authors who don’t like or ‘get’ Twitter, it’s because they haven’t really dug in, clicked around, discovered the people and content that interests them. We all want INTERESTING. Are constant book links interesting? Nope. Again, occasional if fine — I want people to know about my books, too.
Hopefully, however, I’ll have shared something interesting, which brings them to my profile and then at some point, to my purchase link. We don’t have to be friends with everyone we meet — but it’s always helpful to make an effort at the very least.
I like that part of your effort includes responding to every comment on your post. 🙂 Thank you.
Thank you. It is important — if you took the time to read, share, and comment, why shouldn’t I? Plus, I enjoy the interaction. Again, it’s all about connection.
I’m always saddened when I see a great post with lots of comments and no replies. It’s like asking someone to your house and then standing at the door without inviting them in.
Unless they’re weird. Then it’s okay.
🙂
It’s truly “better to give than receive…” I spend a lot of time reading other’s posts and perusing their timelines; often coming away from the visit shaking my head and saying to myself, “really?” I am a relative newbie (a little over a year on social media) and I believe…I hope…I learned a lot before I ever pushed the publish button. Between your site(s), and other bloggers giving advice on building a platform, or using social media, I got the gist of “what not to do.”
Your advice to “learn from others” is spot on! You wouldn’t think of driving a car for the first time without a lesson or two, or cooking a gourmet meal without a recipe, especially if you’ve never cooked before…the end results for both, is disaster. It’s the same with social media. Learn the ropes before you dive in and burn up the Twittersphere with links to YOUR work. I’ve found that by just talking, sharing quirky family stuff, and posting for others has increased my following exponentially, and has introduced me to some remarkable people I can now call, friends (example…YOU).
This post should be on the Twitter (and other media outlets) sign up page! Great advice, sister!
Taylor~
Thanks so much, Taylor! So much of social media (and ‘author platform’) is common sense. Perfectly reasonable people IRL becomes automaton’s on Twitter — why is that, IDK. And there’s so much terrific info out there about how to effectively use social media — no matter which channel one is on, we need to be authentic and provide great content. We can share content — no need to create it all ourselves — by giving attribution.
Reach is critical for authors — follow others, connect with their followers to connect with their followers and on and on. That kind of connection is work — probably more than most are willing to do. I’m still baffled, to be honest.
thanks for sharing how you use it. I’m thrilled to call you friend, too! xx
So very true! I’ve unfollowed a few authors that tweet nothing but links and reviews over and over, even though I’ve probably fallen into the same trap myself on occasion. In my defence, I schedule a handful of promotional tweets to go out throughout the week, then tweet random thoughts in real time – except sometimes the real time tweets don’t happen, and then I’m conscious that my profile is a cluster of promotional tweets.
A specific habit that bugs me is receiving a promotional DM right after I follow someone new – any DM from someone I haven’t interacted with is going to get a suspicious eye raise; if it contains a review and/or link, it gets an unfollow.
Claire, those people never read posts like these – or they’d know not to do it!!!
Honestly, I think that sounds like a good mix. It’s not ALL self-promo, it’s not all ‘Thank you for the follow/RT/whatever’ — it’s a good combo. The DMs are such a mistake. It’s pushy and annoying — and people will complain about getting them, yet still send them, as if they’re ‘annoyingness’ is immune. It’s so funny!
I enjoy scheduling in quotes, pix, blog posts, and the occasional link to my work. But mostly, I enjoy knowing that when I DO have a promo, people tend to start sharing and RTing without me even having to ask. That’s what all this work is for, ultimately!
I get so tired of seeing the same Tweets over and over — not only “buy my book” but all those little encouraging sayings that make me want to throw up. I’ve received a lot more attention on Twitter and gained many followers since I took your advice and started using a theme for my Tweets. My “Editor’s Tips” have been well received, so thank you for the advice.
Love,
Janie
My favorite part is the part where you say “Chat, be yourself,” and I think this is pretty sound advice about how much to promote your own work. I subscribe to this way of thinking.
Thanks Gene! Yes, it is such a simple concept, right? Yet many authors continue to pimp nothing but their own links. We don’t speak that way in real life, why do it online?
IDK. It boggles the mind.
good luck!
I was directed here by you after I sent you a single polite request to RT a promo message for my book. All I will say in order to speak my mind is that I kindly and thoughtfully RT for other people whenever they ask me nicely as well as tweet for my online friends every day too, often paying it forward. As opposed to the doom and gloom that you undoubtedly predict for people like me whom you obviously regard as takers and not givers, I will inform you that my solidarity and courtesy online earn me a steady influx of over 1200 new followers per month so pardon me if I I disregard your precious advice. My sincerest apologies for bothering you; In my defence, I imagined you’d be open to allegience and common courtesy. As I said in my reply email, hint taken! By the way, the unfollow button also worked nicely on this end!
Thank you for your comment. Good luck with your selling approach.
I personally unfollow and report people for spam when unsolicited guilt requests to RT or share or buy appear in the stream. It is one thing you have interactions every day with someone or even just casual interaction. It is entirely another when it is the first time you have heard of them or from them. Even more loathed? The “follow me somewhere else,” garbage in a direct message unless they are someone familiar, with some history of interaction beyond, “buy my stuff.”
Agreed, Dee. That IS annoying and let’s be honest, kind of disrespectful of the time we’ve taken to build up and interact with our own followers.
For the record, people can do whatever they want. I’m not the Twitter Police :). My goal, as always, is to inform and encourage authors to find alternate ways to connect and avoid the ‘hard sell’ approach that is such a turn-off.
Hi Rachel
Great post – I’ve sat here for 5 minutes thinking it over and reading the comments and its great that so many people are realising the social bit in social media is important. I’ve been on twitter I think around the same time as you maybe a bit later and I loved it, I got to talk to all these fascinating people and there was a lot more interaction. Now my stream is getting less and less people talking to each other – so I think its good when any of us just pop a reminder to be social out there. Your post got me thinking of a new trend with certain authors who follow a vast amount of people each day, have a chat or RT a comment, then as soon as you either follow them back and/or tweet that you’ve bought their book, they immediately unfollow you. Its not a very bright strategy, it just serves to piss off your customer base which endures they won’t buy a single one of your other books.. But hey that author has a gazillion followers a day or month so who cares?! Don’t get it, its the equivalent to taking someone out for coffee and then mashing cake in their hair (well it isn’t but you know what I mean 🙂 ) anyway #RantOver great post x
I agree…I’ve always been into conversation on Twitter and I’ve made many friends there. But lately doing my book blogtour I’ve had to schedule tweets in hootsuite to promote my blogger friends’ posts about my book. It’s snowballed into a huge bunch of tweets just about my book. Even though the links are driving traffic for my friends’ blogs. I find it hard because it’s changed my normal voice on Twitter.
Ack! I left a comment here last night, from my iPad – and it’s evaporated. I’m so bummed!
Lemeesee if I can rebuild it. I agree about twitter, I’m always chatty over there. But lately my own stream is full of tweets promoting my book’s blogtour on the host blogs and it feels wrong. I can’t do anything about it, except intersperse with my usual stuff, but I feel like apologizing to everyone.
yea, it’s difficult with promotions. You don’t want to sound like a broken record, but you want people to share in the tour. One option: provide a link to the blog tour page (that lists all the different sites you’re on) on your Twitter bio for the period of your tour. Then refer people to the bio for details/link etc.
You can also boost posts on Facebook — I find I have more readers on FB than Twitter — but again, it’s about connection than selling anyway.
good luck!
I agree, nothing makes me reach for the unfollow button more than a constant repition of ‘buy me, buy me, buy me.’ You’ve got to offer something more than that, something of yourself, something amusing, entertaining or informative. You have to engage with people. I think if people get to know you they are then more likely to respond positively when you do post about your book or blog, which I do (occasionally).
One of the highest forms of learning is doing — my guess is that most people look for the easy way and see Twitter especially as a way to yell with a megaphone, rather than taking the time to learn how to (and how no to) use it as a marketing tool.
There’s more, of course. There’s a disconnect — in some, a sense of entitlement (you’re a writer, too so RT my stuff because we are comrades) but how am I different than any other potential reader? I’m not. Let’s at least talk first before you expect me to buy you dinner… 🙂
The ultimate megaphone way of using twitter is, of course, to use Auto Tweet or Begware or Roundteam in order to do all your Twitter shouting non-stop, 24 hours a day. I’ve written a blog post about why people shouldn’t use these things. I haven’t named them but it’s obvious to whom I’m referring. I was thinking that perhaps I shouldn’t post it, though; the providers of these ‘services’ have as much right to tout them as everyone else does everything else; I wondered if the post might be seen as trouble making or even libellous. What do you think?
I agree — I won’t use them either … mostly because of branding — is what those companies are retweeting relevant to my brand? It’s a ‘selfish’ way to look at it, maybe, but I care. I’ve worked hard to create a certain level of expertise over the last 5 years — why would I hand over my stream to some random unknown company to decide what to add to MY stream?
We’re all entitled to our opinion, of course. I can’t stand TrueTwit validations because they are a bot requiring me to prove I’m NOT a bot by clicking on a link and filling something out. That’s my opinion. Some people love them. *shrug* but to be safe, consult with an attorney. I can’t really say for sure and I wouldn’t want you to take my advice and then get sued!
Ha ha! Thanks for your advice! I’m still not sure…. the reason I wrote it is that I saw a nice intelligent middle-aged writer chap about to sign up for it, without really knowing what he was doing. He said he was very busy and thought this was just some tool that ‘everyone’ was using and he was the last one on board. I wrote him a long email and explained it all to him and he was horrified that he might have done such a dumb thing! I wanted to warn others (and keep Twitter from being ruined!), but thought that it might even be a reason for the RoundTeam guy to report my profile to Twitter – the last thing I want to do is get it removed!!!! Think I’ll be best just to leave it and send it out only when someone needs it (like SuperWoman swooping in!)
Right now I’m still just feeling my way through SM. Reading your advice a lot but since I am not at the selling stage yet I’m probably not applying as much as I should. It is fun to just connect with people and chat. sometimes I get a chance to connect them with someone else I know. I do a lot of promotion for my friends and fellow authors as well. Also I gave you a Dragon’s Loyalty Award http://wp.me/p1PhaM-2o6
Wow, you are too kind! Thank you, sweet. I’m honored.
Sharing what is interesting to you (ie, manga, gaming) will always come across as more interesting to others as opposed to ONLY ‘here’s what I wrote’ kind of thing. Not to say you shouldn’t share your writing — people are interested — just that mixing it up seems to work the best (to gain followers, build a fan base, and ultimately, sell your books)!
giant hugs.
Great advice.
I’ve got to agree with you and must admit I’ve made the very same mistake myself by trying directly to promote my books on twitter, it’s never paid off, I know it and no longer try that approach.
I will take note of your suggestions and thank you for sharing them.
Have a great day.
Mike Smith
I love this post. I understand the different views others may take with their social media strategy. Freedom of choice is a powerful thing. However, I find, even as the rookie author on social media, that my tendency is to unfollow or ignore tweeters whose only tweets are about selling themselves.
Another pet peeve of mine is when people post how many followers and unfollowers they’ve had in a day. What?! Definitely another etiquette issue someone could discuss.
Every word so true. I barely have enough time to write let along read the authors who follow me. LoL
Social media has taken the connectivity out of networking. Relationships take time to build and then require nurturing.
Really enjoyed this post Rachel – as a new twitter user I do find the reams and reams of sales pitches very annoying and tend to gloss over them. It can actually become difficult to find a tweet that I’m able to reply to and engage in conversation.
Still, early days for me yet so I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it.
The best advice I give newbies and veteran Tweeps is to not follow other authors (or not to ONLY follow other authors) — focus on bloggers, reviewers, readers, people of similar interests. It makes our experience that much better anyway! more enriching and connected. 🙂 thanks so much for reading, Lee. xx
Thank you, Rachel, for writing this great, informative article.
I knew I had to get involved in social media when I joined Twitter over the summer.
I have a book that is coming out later this year and quickly realized that I had to be a PR person and a writer. Not having a book out allowed me to converse and retweet with others. It was a different form of communication that also included areas for marketing. What I have enjoyed the most was when I shared inspirational quotes, articles or comments of interest. On Twitter, most people want to engage for various reasons; very few want to be seen as a potential consumer to purchase an item on impulse.
I have plenty of hits on my web site and make royalties on my traditionally published books. But my Twitter base has been slow to build even though I’ve avoided the hard sell and post news and blogs primarily, but #Mondayblogs dramatically increased my followers in just one week. And of course led me to some fascinating spots on the Web–including here. Thanks! Happy Holidays!
Read This Before You SELL SELL SELL Books On Twitter is a good article and I agree completely. There is a shower of cheap business shots all over twitter land, I also agree that finding ways to interact is likely to make the twitter experience more interesting. Everyone has agenda’s and it is not always clear what they are. The points on skilful use of twitter are well made and I will aim to spend more time building those skills.
Thank you, Cliff! It’s sad, really, how many people don’t see how beneficial true relationship building is — those cheap shots you mention are such a waste of their time and resources, yet the people doing it will defend this uselessness til their dying day! It’s comical.
We can only focus on our own branding strategies and help like-minded folks. I do share my POV because I hope to reach those cheap-shotters — maybe one will get the message? I keep hoping, anyway :). Thanks again.