The Reasons Reverse Sexism Doesn't Really Exist via @rachelintheoc

Rachel Thompson

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The Reasons Reverse Sexism Doesn’t Really Exist

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I am not sexist and I don’t condone violence. You might disagree with me after reading this post.

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I shared a question on my Facebook wall the other day: what do you have an irrational fear of? Hundreds of people answered (I started things off with my perfectly rational fear of spiders because, spiders) and with a few exceptions I’ll note in a moment, people opened themselves up, sharing what truly frightens them, from the seemingly silly (cherry tomatoes?) to the downright horrifying (elevator cables snapping, airplanes crashing). I loved how many people cared and supported one another, sharing stories about their true fears.

The response was amazing!

The notable exceptions: about five or so men who said, “being asked my irrational fear on social media.” They all basically laughed it off in the same *wink wink har har* manner, at different times, without reading the thread to see that other men had already said the exact same thing (and then there’s the one guy who, apropos of nothing, made an inappropriate comment about my ‘tantalizingly red hair’), which I ignored completely — I’m supposed to be flattered?

Realizations

I realize these men thought they were being funny, original, possibly hilariously comical however, this was a post on my wall where, if you don’t know me at all, I often ask people to write what scares them, to reveal their vulnerabilities. I found it terribly disrespectful of these guys to joke around this way, not only to me but also to the brave, wonderful people who had gone out of their way to share their fears with others in such a public way. We really had engendered a bonding camaraderie which these guys ignored completely by injecting this type of immature tomfoolery.

I realize that some men (not all men, so if this doesn’t apply to you, good men of the world who would never do this and didn’t do this, I’m not talking to you and am not lumping all men into a category of ‘all men are dicks,’ because I appreciate and respect you, truly), will never share their true fears with anyone, especially themselves, let alone in a public forum– so the easy answer is to go on someone else’s wall and criticize or make sarcastic comments. Yes, some women will do that, too. (In fact, one woman did make such a comment in a non-humorous way — she explained that if a future employer saw her comment, she was afraid she may lose out on a job opportunity.)

I shared my frustrations in a different post, accompanied by an ironically focused humor meme which states: “boys are stupid, throw rocks at them,”  — see screenshot of my post with the cartoon below. I’ll even link to this post so you can see all the replies for yourself (though you’d have to friend me to see it in its entirety). What’s interesting is that because I made the observation that it was only men who made goofy comments on my original post, combined along with the obviously satirical cartoon, people accused me of being sexist. Oh, and promoting violence.

My Response Post

 

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The Offending Screenshot

 

 

The Cartoon That Incites Violence

(which is a book by Todd Harris Goldman — a BOY)

boys are stupid throw rocks

Clearly, a threat.

What I Believe 

I focus on supporting what I love and not bashing what I don’t, but I must, in this case, stand up for what I strongly believe in. By stating my observation that 90% of these silly comments were made by men, people accused me of being sexist.

Interesting.

“Here’s what’s strange, and what’s extraordinary
Nothing changes, but nothing stays the same”

~ Room in my Heart, Jonatha Brooke 

(copyright, Jonatha Brooke)

I don’t promote negativity. I promote compassion and polite discourse. I believe in humor (in fact, I wrote two best selling satirical humor books). When I received comments such as ‘if that cartoon were of girls having rocks thrown at them, you’d feel different,’ or ‘do you literally believe boys are stupid and should have rocks thrown at them?’ I feel I have to respond.

No. I posted a humorous cartoon that I thought, as educated adults, people wouldn’t take literally. That is my mistake. One of the Four Agreements is: don’t make assumptions, so that’s on me.

The Bigger Issue

But there’s a bigger issue here (so get your rocks ready):

I simply do not feel it’s possible for men to be oppressed in the same way women have been throughout history and even now (particularly given that men control 95% of the clout in media), so I disagree with the straw-man argument that women oppress men — it’s a false equivalence.

Feel free to throw your rocks now — or maybe your dictionary (which, by the way, was created by men).

I love this article by Melissa A. Fabello, Co-Managing Editor of Everyday Feminism, on Everyday Feminism, which breaks down why sexism against men (aka, reverse sexism) is just not possible. Sure, women stereotype men, just as men stereotype women. Sure, there’s prejudice and discrimination against both genders, which totally sucks. However, reverse sexism isn’t possible because these four main tenets would have to be true:

1. It Is Pervasive
It is woven throughout social institutions, as well as embedded within individual consciousness. 

2. It Is Restrictive
That is, structural limits significantly shape a person’s life chances and sense of possibility in ways beyond the individual’s control.

3. It Is Hierarchical
That is, oppression positions one group as “better” than another.

Dominant or privileged groups benefit, often in unconscious ways, from the disempowerment of subordinated or targeted groups.

4. The Dominant Group Has the Power to Define Reality
That is, they determine the status quo: what is “normal,” “real,” or “correct.”

In order for women to perpetuate reverse sexism in ways that consistently and influentially impact society (including my post about throwing rocks at boys), any and all of the above would have to be true, and they’re not — at least, not at a comparable level. The ‘tit for tat’ argument doesn’t work here.

What makes me the most sad about all this? Women deal with sexism on the daily on social media just by being on social media. Sure, men get it too, but on the same level? Not even close. See, it’s not about tit for tat. That’s the point! I’m not denying that sexism happens to men — what I’m saying is that it’s not comparable. 

(I have male friends who are being harassed by female bosses in their jobs as I write this — it sucks and I support these dear friends in going after these women to the fullest extent they possibly can. I hope these women are fired for their abuse of power. I’m not a denier. It happens. Again, my point is, on the whole of society in general, the scale of incidence is much lower for men.)

Read this amazing article by best selling Booktrope author J.C. Hannigan on social media perversity, or one of my past articles on similar topics, or this article from the fabulous Chuck Wendig on how women are treated on the Internet (and for the record, I love when men support women — the more the merrier). And don’t even get me started on what Trump has the nerve to say about women, Megyn Kelly and Rosie O’Donnell being only the most recent examples (bimbo, pig). How is this acceptable at all?

And if you think I’m just making this all up, the fact remains that women continue to make 78 cents to the dollar compared to men, a gap that has remained largely unchanged for more than a decade. The problem is even worse for women of color (Source: Economic Justice).

Beyond Sexism

Apart from all of that, what upset me most about the incident: people attacked me for sharing a frustration, an opinion they didn’t approve of, on my account, on a space I’ve created, developed, and branded over many years. See, what I love about social media is while it’s indeed social, about building relationships and connections, I don’t need anyone’s permission to post what I want — I’m an adult woman, and as long as what I’m posting is within Facebook’s guidelines (no porn, no promotion), do I need to ask for anyone’s approval or consensus? No, I don’t.

Neither do you. It’s not my policy to come over to your wall and tell you what to post, criticize your opinions, or bully you for your beliefs — it baffles me that people feel it’s their right to do the same to others. This is why people become depressed (read more about Social Comparison Theory here), create plastic veneers of themselves, or post nothing but happy cat videos and rainbow-crap inspirational quotes — nobody wants to be R E A L because what happens when we reveal our true selves? People laugh, bully, and criticize and that hurts if we take it personally.

I’ve thought seriously of shutting down my Facebook account this past few days but I won’t, and you know why? Because of the advocacy work I do with childhood sexual abuse survivors, raising money for the Joyful Heart Foundation, the real-life friendships I’ve made, the Gravity Imprint I direct for Booktrope, and the BadRedhead Media client work I do and love — all are tied into Facebook. That’s what I take personally and means more to me than anything else, next to my babies.

I have taken to shutting my Facebook down on Fridays (as many of you know, I take #FFF: Facebook Free Fridays) already and will continue to do so; perhaps, I’ll carry that over to other days as well because frankly, I don’t need the negativity and does it really matter anyway? Not to me. I keep doing what I do, posting what I want, and writing my stories. I encourage you to do the same.

hopkins

Most likely, this article will feed the negativity and I accept that, but like my Facebook wall, this blog is my home, too.

I welcome your respectful comments.

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Comments

  1. Years ago when I still taught I would tell my students that I thought the most powerful message in The Incredibles was delivered by Syndrome at the moment when he had captured Mr. Incredible: “Once everyone is super nobody will be.”

    I told them there was such power in this message because for some reason we have built a culture where if someone dares to stand out in anyway then the group at large wants to remove the “super” value by making all things equal — either by sharing the misery or sharing bounty. But it doesn’t work that way. Not all experiences are equal nor should they be. Once they are there is no reason for empathy or compassion or learning from each other, or even growth.

    Reply

    • Love that example, C! Syndrome was a bitter little man, but he was also smart. This reminds me how people scold survivors for sharing our experiences — telling us ‘well, it could have been worse’ because we survived, as if minimizing it should wipe our memories clean, or reminding us that because we’re not physically broken, because we haven’t say, lost a limb, we’re less damaged somehow.

      This lack of compassion, this ‘tit for tat’ must stop if we going to learn from each other. That’s really my true message here. Thank you for seeing that.

      Reply

  2. I had a rather intense conversation with a mutual friend of ours who was one of the upset. She was very angry with you for that “throw rocks at boys” post, and I was not, and she wanted to talk with me about it. We are long-time friends in real life, and I think she was shocked and slightly offended that I was *not* shocked and offended by your words. I tried to say to her much the same things that you have outlined here, up to and including “it’s her wall and she can say what she wants,” as well as adding in some of my own opinions about male privelidge… and I think I shocked her further. We’ve sort of agreed not to discuss it, but I very much would like to point her to this blog post and see if it would alter her opinion at all. I don’t know if it would or not, but I’d love to find out.

    One of the things I mentioned to her is a belief of my own that societies all over the world have developed male dominance because of a basic, genetic difference between the sexes that goes so far beyond cultural, and that it’s not even necessarily mens’ conscious fault. They are literally hard-wired the way they are (as are females), and though we as human beings (both genders) have the intellectual, spiritual, and moral compasses to overcome our DNA, there are some things that are just not going to change quickly or easily. I truly believe things CAN change, but they won’t do it overnight, and they won’t do it without a lot of heartache and pain, and probably a bit of rock throwing somewhere.

    I just wanted to let you know that I don’t condemn you for your post, I took it as humour, and you did not incite me to throw any rocks at anyone. But I was deeply grieved to learn that you were unfriended by someone I thought was… more rational than that. Because you’re absolutely right. Reverse sexism just isn’t a thing. A woman can have a hate-on for men all she wants, it just doesn’t even come close to comparing, and never will. And yes, there ARE good men in this world. I know that perfectly well. And I’m grateful for the fact. Still doesn’t balance out s**t.

    Reply

    • Thank you, Josie, for your thoughtful comments AND support. I’m often amazed how people feel a sense of entitlement to what others post — me or anyone else. I personally don’t agree with Clint Eastwood’s political leanings, but that doesn’t stop me from enjoying his brilliant filmmaking. I think it comes down to people taking things personally, when they don’t KNOW someone in the slightest.

      I also think it’s a matter of respect for others’ belief systems, whether that’s religious, political, or otherwise. I respect your opinion and also your friend’s right to disagree with me, and I would expect the same in return. Unfortunately, we all don’t work on that same level — and people do become upset about that, which neither your nor I can control.

      The Four Agreements is very helpful to me in this regard, particularly to not take anything personally — it really is more about what the other person has going on than what I say or do, how their belief systems are ‘forcing’ them to try to control that which they cannot, which creates issues for them. I wish her the best.

      As for the humor, we’re all so individual — the majority of folks (even the guys!) found it funny and for those who didn’t, I’m not their demographic :). thanks again for your thoughtful comments.

      Reply

  3. I really don’t blame strictly men for this. Why? Because someone had to raise them. Generations before us let this behavior get completely out of hand. They allowed girls and women to be sexualized to the degree where our collarbones, shoulders, and knees even are considered “a distraction” to males, a distraction that is OUR problem that we must cover up, least they get distracted.

    Yes, there are plenty of good men in the world, and there are plenty of shitty women. But men do not need to stand up and say “this is wrong”. They don’t need to feel ashamed about wearing shorts and a beater in summer, because they don’t get leered at the way women do. Don’t believe me? Dress in shorts and a tank top. Have your dude do the same. Yeah, they get “checked out”, but there not in a predatory leering way.

    I blame the media, I blame society. The media and countless avenues of entertainment teach our younger generations that women want the “alpha male”. They teach younger generations that women can be convinced to love them (I call this the Beauty and the Beast mentality).

    But you know what? I think I’ll save my rant for that post you want me to write, haha!

    Anyway, the point is – BANG ON. You’re right. And I have also made the mistake of assuming the masses could tell the difference between a tongue in check, sarcastic MEME. Apparently, that’s not so. One must ALWAYS spell out every humorous attempt, least someone take offense.

    Reply

  4. THIS – 4. The Dominant Group Has the Power to Define Reality
    That is, they determine the status quo: what is “normal,” “real,” or “correct.”

    When some men claim “reverse sexism”, that is members of the dominant group trying to rewrite reality.

    Reply

    • Thanks for your response, Ciara. It is interesting, how many men will (and have) denied this exists, or resort to name-calling (on my Twitter, in response to this post!). It seems almost impossible to have this conversation at times, when it’s a conversation that we need to have. I appreciate your insights.

      Reply

  5. Just want to chime in and say that I don’t believe reverse sexism is a threat to the majority of humans on earth, at least not in 2015. When women have equal rights and get equal respect socially, in the workplace, and online, then men can complain about reverse sexism.

    Reply

    • What you are saying is that men can now complain about reverse sexism, correct? Show me how women are oppressed and I will see your example and raise you with two examples of reverse sexism.

      Reply

      • Here are a few examples to think about:

        The pay gap has barely budged in a decade.
        In 2013, among full-time, year-round workers, women were paid 78 percent of what men were paid.

        Women in every state experience the pay gap, but some states are worse than others.
        The best place in the United States for pay equity is Washington, D.C., where women were paid 91 percent of what men were paid in 2013. At the other end of the spectrum is Louisiana, the worst state in the country for pay equity, where women were paid just 66 percent of what men were paid.

        The pay gap is worse for women of color.
        The gender pay gap affects all women, but for women of color the pay shortfall is worse. Hispanic women’s salaries show the largest gap, at 54 percent of white men’s earnings. Black women’s salaries stand at 64 percent of white men’s earnings. White men are used as a benchmark because they make up the largest demographic group in the labor force.

        Women face a pay gap in nearly every occupation.
        From elementary and middle school teachers to computer programmers, women are paid less than men in female-dominated, gender-balanced, and male-dominated occupations.

        The pay gap grows with age.
        Women typically earn about 90 percent of what men are paid until they hit 35. After that median earnings for women are typically 75–80 percent of what men are paid.

        While more education is an effective tool for increasing earnings, it is not an effective tool against the gender pay gap.
        At every level of academic achievement, women’s median earnings are less than men’s earnings, and in some cases, the gender pay gap is larger at higher levels of education. While education helps everyone, black and Hispanic women earn less than their white and Asian peers do, even when they have the same educational credentials.

        The pay gap also exists among women without children.
        AAUW’s Graduating to a Pay Gap found that among full-time workers one year after college graduation — nearly all of whom were childless — women were paid just 82 percent of what their male counterparts were paid.

        (Source: Economic Research)

        But you can believe whatever you choose, dear.

        Reply

  6. I’ve been a restaurant manager for a long time. In all those years I’ve never had a dude ask me to walk t him to his car after close because a woman was creeping him out. That’s a big difference I think.

    Reply

    • Excellent point, Alexander! I used to work retail and same thing — the managers (all male) insisted on walking us to our cars to make sure we got on our way safely — gallant of them and smart. As a college student who often took night classes, the girls took to walking in packs and driving each other to our cars or having one of the guys walk us and even then, there was always that question of ‘is he safe?’ which is sad, but true.

      Rape culture deniers are almost always men because they just cannot imagine what that fear is like. I found out I had a ‘Peeping Tom’ in the first apartment where i lived alone — an upstairs neighbor kid who lived with his girlfriend and beat her regularly (despite my almost daily 911 calls). I wasn’t long for that place. Peeping Tallulah’s rarely exist…but that’s a whole other post.

      Thank you for sharing your insight, A. xx

      Reply

      • I don’t remembered when it happened but at some point I noticed how creepy guys can be. It’s like a mess up in a movie, once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

        I think women can do creepy shit too. I just a cashier go through receipts to find a cute guys name and look him up of Facebook. That’s creepy to me, but it didn’t carry the same weight as if that situation had been reversed. There’s a fear there that I totally understand that I will never understand. It makes me grateful for myself, but angry as fuck for my daughter. All I can do is teach her to be her and teach my sons the art of being a gentlemen, and murder in case anyone messes with their sister.

        Reply

  8. I’d like to politely disagree. We are assuming only two sexes here. There are many orientations, and some men on this planet take a hells load of abuse for their not measuring up to some kind of mainstream standard, which is a form of sexism. Many boys are raped repeatedly, many men are beaten to pulps, and some are murdered over sexuality issues. I’d like to introduce the concept of layered sexism- men throwing rocks at other men, etc.

    Sarcasm is a learned defensive response. Yes, it’s passive aggressive, dysfunctional, and sometimes ugly. However, learning to see it as simply that is a first step toward stepping over sexism. Getting a defensive response on a public site where some comments feel like attacks that might provoke defensive response (from either side, and any person) is part of the discussion, and singling a group out for a philosophical logic proof is deleterious itself, and creates more defensiveness.

    I come from Mennonites on my dad’s side and very repressed mainstream Christianity on my mother’s side, so it’s easy to see the power structure. However, I’ve also seen emotionally powerful women within these structures destroy men, and other men abuse the fallen. I think we need to zoom out for a larger picture before we decry sexism being a one way street, especially if it’s based on blog commentary.

    I don’t mean to offend anyone here, or to be rude, but as a woman who has seen some pretty dark places in this world, I’d like to stand up for all the men who didn’t stop and leave sarcastic comments on your page. There are some really great ones out here, and some of them really do understand the sexism issue.

    Reply

    • Hi Pinky and thanks so much for weighing in. I had hoped that by bringing in source material from other writers, as well as the Everyday Sexism article, you and others would see that this isn’t only my experience, so I apologize if that didn’t come across. I also recognize and respect that there are plenty of wonderful men who don’t respond in the manner I discuss here. I personally have a number of amazing men in my life who are appalled at the responses I received (and continue to receive) on social media. They themselves tell me ‘most men are idiots’ — and this comes from men!

      Yes, I agree there are awful women in this world — we see them daily (it’s one of the reasons I don’t watch the BRAVO channel with the ‘Real Housewives’ shows — where women are often portrayed as critical harpies and men as doormat caricatures), or much of network television. My only point with this article is to point out that experiences, while they exist, are not tit for tat in an equally comparable manner. Again, that’s on me if I didn’t make this clear. I hear what you are saying and believe it, 100%. I’ve witnessed women being horrible to men and it makes me cringe.

      My goal is to have a conversation and not make it defensive. People treat people poorly and that sucks. I wish we all could recognize one another’s experiences and validate that they happen, and figure out a way for everyone to be respectful, regardless of gender.

      Reply

  9. The mental gymnastics you must go through to hold onto your double standards is equivalent to the physical gymnastics males have to go through to become a firefighter or soldier, while females are held to a lesser standard, while expecting the same pay outcome. There is no such thing as reverse sexism. There is only sexism, and your duplicity is evidence of your own sexist attitudes.

    Reply

  10. I agree with you, if I agree with the definition you provided (the four tenets), Actually number one negates anyone within the framework of your definition saying there is sexism against men, because I don’t believe anyone can say sexism against men is pervasive in society. Obviously that’s not true.
    So I’m not arguing with you on the definition, but I would raise my hand and say that in individual cases, anecdotally, that the other three CAN be true.

    let me set the scenario. There is a female manager just one level down from the CEO. Now, for whatever reason, she thinks using sex to exert power is important, but not like people normally think. She calls underling men into her office, closes the door, makes inappropriate remarks about their body parts, and stares at the man’s crotch the whole time. There is no reason for her to do this professionally, often, its just to chit chat, but the door is closed. In another instance, on a business trip, one married man she likes has to accompany her and she makes the hotel reservations for only one bed. The man has to sleep in the car, or sleep with her. He chooses the car. This is a hard decision because she outranks him by a few levels. He could be fired without cause for not going along.

    Now before you think I’m setting up a hypothetical situation, this actually happened, and part of if happened to me. But this was back in 1980s, a time where even if a man brought this up, he’d be a laughing stock.

    Is this sexism? Not by your entire definition, no.

    and this does fall under your exception of harassment, etc.

    I think, however, this incident made me hyper aware of when it happens to others.

    As long as society is set up the way it is, yes, there is sexism in only one direction. But that’s only because one gender has the power generally. I’m reasonably confident that this is a human issue, though, rather than a gender issue, and if hypothetically our western society were matriarchal instead of patriarchal, the situation would occur in the other direction.

    SO I disagree that it’s entirely unpossible. I just think its unlikely for things to swing completely in the other direction.

    HOWEVER, I do note a great number of posts by women in social media showing near naked mean and making comments that would be unacceptable in general if the gender were reversed. A most recent one was a bunch of firemen without shirts on, and women saying they would set things on fire immediately. This is cute, and funny, and sexist. No one gets on them for it, and that’s fine, but I wish people would recognize this for what it is.

    Reply

    • HI John and thank you for sharing your thoughtful comments and experiences. I fully agree that sexism happens both ways and I’m sorry if I didn’t make that clearer in my post. I’m sharing my own point of view on my own blog.

      I do agree with you that men are discriminated against — I’ve witnessed it also (I had a young, female boss who pressured all the mothers and older women to quit so she could hire young, hot men to flirt with) and shared in the article that my male friend is currently experienced something similar — and his female boss should be fired for her actions — discrimination of any kind shouldn’t exist and it sucks!

      My point is that the sheer amount of discrimination against women vs men isn’t comparable and that’s what I’m hoping we can have polite discourse about. Men seem to deny this point and that’s why I feel it’s worth discussion. I don’t agree that it’s only a Western issue however; Middle Eastern women have struggled for years to vote or even get an education (See Malala). Patriarchy is alive and well all over the world.

      I’m sorry you experienced that (how awful and what a terrible position to be put in). Thank you for sharing. xx

      Reply

      • good point, I just said Western world because that’s what I’m familiar with.
        and like I said, I agree with you its extremely one-sided, as it is now.

        As far as me, I was the guy in the office, not the other guy in the car, though he talked to me about it. I have to say it made me feel all sorts of conflicted feelings. Definitely shame, and like I wanted to take a shower. Even though it wasn’t my fault, I went through all the things people do, Did I cause this? Did I give her a wrong impression? will I get fired? I was married then to my first wife (who passed away soon after), and talked to her about it, and she wanted to go punch the woman. Luckily, little by little I found out I wasn’t the only one she was doing it to, so I realized it wasn’t my fault.

        I was a newish employee, and one of the other men saw me go into her office and her close the door. He came up to me privately later, and asked what had happened. I told him, and he said, yeah, all the men get pulled into her office like that.

        anyhow neither here nor there. thanks for listening.

        Reply

  11. The dictionary defines sexism as ‘Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination on the basis of sex.’ I think your title is misleading because you claim the reverse does not happen, but in your writing you accept it does, but not to the same extent. I believe this is correct. My husband and I are often annoyed by reverse sexism and say if a man said that about a woman he would be slaughtered for it. Equality is what we need, not things just for women, positions opening up for women, more women in politics… etc. Freedom and equality.

    Reply

    • I apologize if you feel my title is misleading — that wasn’t my intention. Thanks for sharing the dictionary definition of sexism and your thoughts as well. I love when people use the dictionary to describe grand scale societal issues. here’s a great response I read on Everyday Feminism:

      “I’ll let the amazingly brilliant Audre Lorde explain why using a resource {the dictionary} created by an oppressive force to detangle the concept of oppression makes zero sense: “The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house.”

      The Hierarchy

      See, the problem with the dictionary definition of “sexism,” for example, is that it posits that sexism is “prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination…on the basis of sex” or “unfair treatment of people because of their sex.”

      Now, the cool thing is that the dictionary is starting to get hip to the notion that generally, sexism occurs against women (and I say “generally” not to infer that it is possible to be sexist against men, but rather that sexism also affects trans and gender non-conforming people) – and definitions are starting to reflect that.

      But what the dictionary – and a lot of people who are making this argument – misses is that sexism isn’t just prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination (although all of those things are definitely bad).

      Sexism is a form of oppression.

      If you think of it in the form of a hierarchy, you’ll see that yes, all people can experience stereotyping (assumptions that all people in one group are similar), prejudice (dislike toward a group based on those stereotypes), and discrimination (refusing access to resources based on that prejudice).

      However, only oppressed people experience all of that and institutionalized violence and systematic erasure.

      See, and that’s why it’s not possible to be sexist against men.

      Because you can stereotype men. And you can be prejudiced against men. And you can also discriminate against men. And none of that is okay! But oppression – because it is institutionalized and systematic – is another level entirely.”

      You can read more here: http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/01/reverse-oppression-cant-exist/

      I agree that equality is what we need — and that’s why I wrote this article. To open a discussion about it. Thanks again for responding!

      Reply

  12. Great article! I totally agree that the sexism that men face is not comparable to the sexism that women face. Here’s my story of what might look like reverse sexism, but it’s just actual sexism. I’m a stay at home dad and the primary caretaker for my 10-month old daughter. My wife has a great job that provides well for us. Anyway, I am signed up as the account holder for rewards points with various diaper companies, who offer prizes and such for accumulating points by entering product codes. Pampers emails me usually every week, and most of the time they generally assume that the parent taking the time to have the Pampers account is the mom. They started a tips column on their site called Mommy Corner. I asked if there was any stuff for dads like me, and they congratulated me and mentioned that some of the tips in Mommy Corner were also relevant to me as a parent in general (some weren’t, like how to adjust to post-partum body changes and weight). This week, they offered me a coupon for Secret deodorant for busy and sporty moms. Great. I’ll get right on that, thanks. (no response from them on twitter about it)

    Anyway, comparing it to the four tenets:
    1. It Is Pervasive – check. I feel discriminated against because I am doing what society still considers ‘woman’s work’. They could easily go gender neutral in their mass emails and columns, or tailor the coupons to men and women separately, or at least acknowledge that there are other primary parents other than mommy.
    2. It Is Restrictive – nope. I have individual control here. whew!
    3. It Is Hierarchical: That is, oppression positions one group as “better” than another. –> Check. There is indeed a ‘mommy knows best’ mentality in this culture when it comes to parenting. the media often portrays dads as loving but incompetent when it comes to babies, that when we watch kids, we’re just babysitting at most, and not parenting. People will go to my wife to ask how baby girl is developing and she turns it around to say that i’m the one who knows her growth best.
    4. The Dominant Group Has the Power to Define Reality –> Ah. Check. The dominant group here is probably most likely a corporate cultural mindset that has pushed baby products on mothers for the past century, and does not see the value in being more inclusive. While Procter & Gamble has a Corporate Women’s Leadership Team and is recognized as one of the top 5 companies for executive women by NAFE, their diversity and inclusiveness report focuses on their employees and supply chain, and not their marketing efforts to consumers. They can define reality, and their reality is that their pampers online presence is for moms, not parents.

    Am I being marginalized? yes.
    Are women also being marginalized by this? yes. it’s kind of ghetto-izing them. Looking at the posts in the Mommy Corner, there’s the obvious product marketing and general tips on how to pick babysitters, etc., but also stuff about needing to connect with other moms, and stuff for health, beauty, and home. nothing about how to be a working mom.

    anyway, while it smells like reverse sexism, it’s not. there’s no indication that this is being done by women to men. it’s being done by a company to its customers – reinforcing dominant gender roles. and that’s not cool.

    Keep up the good work!

    Reply

    • Thank you and great points! Stay-at-home dads are definitely part of the ‘out’ crowd, which is interesting, because by societal standards, women are doing women’s work by raising children, so dads are the rebels here and not invited to the party.

      There are so many layers to this issue that it makes one’s head spin. If a woman is on a high-level board and treated in a sexist way (same scenario, but reversed), it’s sexist, so your example works however, it’s still not the overwhelming majority because more men have jobs in a power position (though I’ll agree that mothers are POWERFUL).

      Here is the question though: who is making the decisions by those many companies that market TO moms? Most likely men in suits on boards (with maybe a few women sprinkled in for fun), which is your most salient point — it’s being done by a company to its customers – reinforcing dominant gender roles. and that’s not cool.

      Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences, James, and for being a stay-at-home dad rocking the system!

      Reply

      • Thanks Rachel! I’m doing the best I can. I totally agree with you that most likely it is men in suits (with maybe a few women sprinkled in for fun_ that are making those decisions. Since I didn’t want to assume, I tried to look up info for P&G and found their nice diversity and inclusiveness report but didn’t find a breakdown of employee and management demographics.

        Reply

  13. Hi Rachel
    Great post, plenty to think about, so thanks.
    I do, for the most part, agree wholeheartedly with what you’ve said. The one thing I would disagree with slightly is the assumption, based on the first tenet, that sexist ideas towards men aren’t hard wired into our society.
    Based on my experience, there are still a number of societal pressures on men that are, to my mind, sexist. I teach kids between the ages of 11 and 19 and the pressure from both girls and boys for the boys to be ‘strong’ and not show those feelings that enable them to deal with emotional hardships is very much present.
    However, the real issue comes with what I’ve seen of mothers dealing with their babies/children. I have a daughter who is 4 and a son coming up to 1 year old. This isn’t a blanket rule by any means, but in general, I see mothers expecting their sons to ‘man up’, deal with hardships at a far younger age and keep quiet about being upset about separation from them. Research now suggests that boys need a stronger and longer connection with their mothers to help develop their emotional maturity, yet rarely get it. I would argue that society’s sexist view of men is responsible for this happening.
    Aside from that, I couldn’t agree more!
    Any thoughts?

    Reply

    • Hi Michael and thanks so much for weighing in with your thoughtful, educated words. As a mother of a ten-year-old son, I agree with you that the ‘man-up’ approach is disheartening. I encourage my boy to cry and let it out when he feels those strong emotions bottle up — because he has just as much a right to express them as I do, or his sister, or anyone. I see how his friends rage, hit and throw things (even here at my home) when they become frustrated — some are young enough to still cry and I will comfort them and talk it out, but many have parents who do the ‘man-up’ thing and it frustrates me to no end. I wonder if this is where men learn to do the ‘not talking’ thing which frustrates women!

      Children need to be allowed to be children, regardless of gender, so I agree with you that the expectations placed on boys and men to carry that weight is often too much and can result in poor relationships and often mental health issues.

      Is that sexism/reverse sexism? Perhaps! Something to ponder, definitely, and something we need to discuss more openly and frequently.

      Reply

      • Hi Rachel
        Thanks for your response.
        I am convinced that certainly some of the issues that women (and men) have with men being unable to communicate or be genuinely emotionally responsive come from this kind of upbringing. It is, perhaps, optimistic, but I think that a change in this approach could go a long way to dealing with a lot of the sexism that is so prevalent in society.
        Also, by the by, I wanted to say how awesome the work you do with survivors of sexual abuse is. I work in a school with a number of children who are or have been suffering from it and the openness and honesty you have around it is both refreshing and vital, in my mind, to healthy recovery and taking back the things that are stolen by it. So, thanks. 🙂

        Reply

  14. The double standards in society and on social media particularly are staggering and disappointing. I cannot count the times in the past week where I’ve had men contact me and ask me for sex, or tell me how sexy I am. That is incredibly sexist and degrading to a woman when this happens. We begin to question if we’re sending the wrong message when in reality we are doing nothing wrong. What was posted(the cartoon) was funny. The ones who took it wrong need to see a proctologist to get the stick removed from their ass. How many times have I scrolled through my news feed and saw a guy post a pic of a chick with huge tits? How many times have I seen a guy post something about “who wants to give him a blow job tonight”. So its okay for human that swings meat between his legs to post things of that nature, but a female is ridiculed for posting a cute cartoon? Come on people! Women are not here to bow down to you. We are not here as pleasure toys for your convenience. It all boils down to we are all human. Each person should be treated with the same respect. If you respect me, I do the same for you. But if you want to act like a douche canoe, then yeah, I’m going to post the same cartoon that Rachel did. But I will change it to “boys are stupid, cut off their balls”.

    Reply

    • Hi Cynthia, and thanks for your comments! You know, I didn’t even mention ALL OF THAT. Are we supposed to look awful in our pix so men don’t hit on us? Did I miss the memo?

      It’s constant, yet if we mention that stuff, we’re somehow conceited because we dare discuss it, or bitches because we’re not flattered. As my female boss in corporate america told me when I went to her after being sexually harassed by a male manager in a position of power (the comment had something to do with shaking my ass, said in front of a group of men in a business setting, where I was their superior), ‘Oh honey, I wish I was as cute as you for men to see me that way. Feel good about yourself, sweetie.” Sexism occurs at all levels, which sucks, and that’s my point.

      And then there’s the whole ‘correcting thing’ — somehow women are not expected or allowed to have thoughts and *gasp* opinions of our own. I can’t tell you many men have sent me private PMs/DMs/emails regarding this article (many in a ‘brotherly’ way, when they don’t KNOW me, taking me under their wing so to speak) to let me know how concerned they are with what I’m posting (an opinion! About sexism!) because they feel it’s not appropriate for me to share my opinion on my blog. Oh, okay, I’ll get right on that, fella.

      The entitlement SOME NOT ALL men feel over women is exactly why I wrote this article, and SOME NOT ALL (because if I don’t put that in there in all caps, SOME NOT ALL people will take it personally and think I’m generalizing it to ALL NOT SOME) men’s reaction to it proves my hypothesis many times over.

      Their denial of bropriation and mansplaining as they bropriate and mansplain is hilariously sad.

      Reply

    • Some moronic subset of men hit on you and you immediately generalize to punish good men like myself and seek to perpetuate your own victimhood.

      Reply

      • Hi Hue,

        I’m not sure if you read the entire article, so here’s a quick summary:

        “I’m not denying that sexism happens to men — what I’m saying is that it’s not comparable.”

        Perhaps, if you read it again, you’ll see the point. If not, thanks for visiting and have a super day.

        Reply

  15. Not possible for a man to be oppressed? Men lose their children because they “should be with the mother”, get thrown in jail on a woman’s say so even if there is no evidence, or if everything was made up, and they can’t be oppressed?

    Look, you made a joke about throwing rocks at boys. It was a joke, and people got parsnipity about it.

    Look, they made a joke about your question on Facebook. It was a joke and people got parsnipity about it.

    You can’t look at five men who say something you don’t like and then lash out. What is this? Grade school? Tell them you find it inappropriate at that time and please don’t comment again. You’re a writer. Use your words! Don’t lash back with childish insults about boys being icky.

    God damn, I’m a woman and this shit pisses me off. YES MEN CAN BE OPPRESSED! Especially when so many women can’t see past their own victimhood to see what they are doing to them.

    Reply

    • Hi anonomous — I think perhaps you misunderstand my article. I didn’t say it’s not possible for men to be oppressed. That is not the point at all. I said this:

      “I simply do not feel it’s possible for men to be oppressed in the same way women have been throughout history and even now (particularly given that men control 95% of the clout in media), so I disagree with the straw-man argument that women oppress men — it’s a false equivalence.” I’m not denying that sexism happens to men — what I’m saying is that it’s not comparable.

      And for what it’s worth, the parsnip is a vegetable. I believe the word you were looking for is persnickety.

      Reply

  16. Reverse sexism doesn’t exist? I can’t turn on my television without seeing depictions of every man as inherently violent, a potential rapist, less competent than their female counterparts and emotionally inept and unempathetic. In instance after instance it’s evident that there would be hue and cry if the genders were reversed or the matter was racial.

    Just simply can’t understand how you can give a free pass to what is so plainly evident. I think it must be the relentless culturally conditioning? It’s not ok to stereotype anybody period, especially when that group is nearly half the population. I don’t condone and actively fight stereotyping women but the fact you can’t acknowledge the existence of issue that is deeply hurtful to me psychologically and emotionally leads me to second-guess my apparently one-sided advocacy of you. Do you not care or care to even remotely acknowledge the harms to the psychological well-being such stereotypes cause to your husbands, brothers and sons? It seems not, why do you seek to legitimize the suffering of others?

    Reply

    • Have you perhaps read this entire post by Rachel or, in fact, anything at all she’s written? Because it seems as if you’re responding to something completely different to what’s been written here.

      Reply

    • Hello Hue,

      I can’t turn on the tv without seeing a girl in a bikini selling a hamburger or a beauty product. To say that this is not a patriarchal society we live in is about as ignorant as saying white privilege doesn’t exist.

      What I can say is that in all my years on the internet, I’ve learned something after watching this pattern emerge. When someone responds to a post in the way you did, a nerve was touched. It happens to me too. I realize that when a post shakes me up, sometimes that’s a good thing – like a Shake and Wake.

      Gender cognitive dissonance exists. Your post is a prime example of this. It’s like the religious who can’t accept that god doesn’t exist. Or the white person who doesn’t understand why they must help heal the problem of racism. Or the man who won’t accept that he can be a part of ending rape, the sexualization of young women through media, and that part of women’s reactions these days are akin to the kid being bullied.

      Eventually, they reach their breaking point, fight back, and throw rocks at the bully.

      I’ve spent awhile quietly hovering and reading Rachel on various platforms online. I don’t know her on an interpersonal level. What I can say is that she’s open and honest and vulnerable as hell with her emotions.

      What I also notice is that when we women share our pain and hurt, we are constantly attacked derailed with comments like these. It’s a subliminal form of gangstalking, because it steers the comment thread in a different direction and incites argument.

      I raised two grown men. One is 27 with a family; the other, 24, about to graduate college and head for his Masters in film. I raised them alone. No help emotionally or financially from their fathers. I am the one who has dealt with their abandonment pain.

      So, I taught them to be kind to humans, to never have sex with a strange woman under the influence because she’s not in her clear mind. I taught them that ONE no means no. I didn’t teach them the “don’t hit girls” rule. I taught them that they have the right to DEFEND themselves, but to never be malicious or abusive or to let themselves be abused. I believe that by healing our sons, husbands, brothers, fathers, we CAN change the face of adversity for women.

      That healing starts with listening. I have listened to a person of color rant about white people. I am white. Yet, I still can feel with them, validate their deep pain, and ask how I can contribute to change. Not argue or blame.

      So, I say maybe you could re-read this post from a perspective of understanding the pain we women carry and work on learning to accept the truth about what thousands of years of patriarchy have done to women.

      Reply

  17. This was a great, informative read and I’m amazed that some people are letting their insecurities get in the way or learning a few things while also proving a greater point about the prevalence of sexism.

    Reply

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